Views and Voices of ArrowCreek Property Owners
November 12, 2015
I hope your election will be conducted without any “trickery” . . .
That is: (1) no opening of ballots on weekly basis. Set a single deadline for ballots to be received and a single date for the ballots to be opened in front of owners;
and (2) no extensions to the ballot to be received by deadline.
Good luck to all. I have no stake in the game. Just believe in fair elections.
November 01, 2015
What’s Going On? The ACHOA Board and Committees: Who is controlling your destiny?
The Board will vote on the managing company contract on November 3rd. A revised tentative timeline for the golf course purchase will also be presented at that meeting. Three Board member positions are up for election this December (two pro golf course purchase: Rakusin, Elliot, one against: Krisch) The proposed tentative voting period regarding the Golf Course purchase proposal is to start on December 15th when ballots are to be mailed out following the distribution of background materials on 23 November.
April 17, 2015 at 8:54 am (comment from “About” page)
ACHOA Golf Course Push
It is unbelievable to me how much the ACHOA is pushing to buy this golf course, and what a bad decision it is. When I moved to ArrowCreek six months ago, I was told that if the golf course was purchased that HOA fees would increase $80/month. Now I’m hearing $100/month. (That’s a 25% increase from the original estimate.) There’s a multi-year drought in process. This area is over-run with golf courses. And now I’m getting propaganda from the ACHOA. They sent a “study” showing how golf course proximity improves home values. (Never mind that most of those studies occurred during the housing bubble when everyone wanted “bigger and better” and in the post-Recession world people want “reasonable and affordable.”) The studies did not make any mention of how HOA fees negatively affect housing values. If this golf course is purchased, our HOA fees will be significantly higher than in Montreaux, which has a course most golfers would prefer to Arrowcreek’s.
Then I received a letter about how the Friends of ArrowCreek who currently own the golf course had halted negotiations, but our HOA was pushing forward. Why in the hell would our HOA keep pushing? I thought we were supposed to be the last ditch buyer in the event that the club had no other options. Now the current owners are trying to raise membership to raise the price on us. Let the Friends of Arrowcreek keep their investment. If their plans to improve it work out well, I will wish them nothing but the best with their business decision. But they can’t aim high, then dump the golf course on the rest of us if it doesn’t work out. This is ludicrous! ACHOA has no business running a business. Having a Starbucks nearby increases home values. Will ACHOA next suggest that we all pitch in to build a Starbucks and our ridiculously beauracratic HOA will run it?!!
I have plenty of expensive hobbies like Scuba diving, travel and snowboarding. I don’t expect anyone to subsidize my decisions. Conversely, I admire people who find enjoyment in golf, but if that’s their decision, they can pay for it themselves. What the ACHOA is attempting is what Warren Buffett calls “the corporate imperative” which means that people in power are constantly pushing to expand the scope and reach of their power, always using other people’s money to do so.
Apr 16, 2015
April 14, 2015 ACHOA Board Meeting
I think the (April 14, 2015) ACHOA Board meeting went awful with the board not being able to reign in the clubbers. It just shows the level of intelligence of the attendees. I was particularly taken by the gentleman who wanted an immediate vote to acquire the golf course. That was one of the most unrealistic remarks I have heard yet. To buy the course now, without any financial information would be irresponsible. If there would be a vote now, it should be to determine if anyone is interested in buying the Club. The ACHOA should have asked the members if they would be interested before investing much time and money to get where we are now.
Another point: I believe the Board meetings should be held as non-alcoholic events. With issue discussions as important as we are currently having, it is important to have clear minds before rendering comments. I agree, we should let APG/FOA run the Club and leave the ACHOA out of it.
In regard to ACHOA activities, I also agree, the Residents Club doesn’t have the type of activities as is now being conducted at the Club at ArrowCreek. These type of activities have nothing to do with Golf. Their recent activities have been open for AC residents to attend. My earlier comments are still valid about why they aren’t being held at the Residents Club. That is Our Community Club. If the Board would spend as much time planning our Community activities as they are spending on the Golf Club fiasco, we would all be better off.
We should strive to get more residents involved and return this great place to live without the golf course headache.
Feb 27, 2015
What Happens to Our Home Values
We have several reports that suggest the value of homes in a gated community are increased from zero to more than 30 percent if there is a golf course in the community. (How) can we use those numbers to help us evaluate their possible effect on home values in Arrow Creek. I think the following example is a possibility.
Let’s say that the value of a ‘home’ in Arrow Creek is increased by 5 percent since there is an operating golf course in our community. It is likewise fair to say that the value of that home would decrease by 5 percent if the golf course closes (and goes to brush).
Let’s also say that the value of that home is $500,000. If the golf course closes, it is fair to say that the value of the home decreases by that 5 percent or $25,000.
The most common number we hear for the increase in HOA dues is about $99 per month. If we do not buy the Club, we save about $100 per month or about $1,200 per year. In about 20 years we would have saved that $25,000 in home value that we spent when the club closed.
We can chose other numbers for the effect that a golf course has on home values and for the HOA dues, and we can speculate how long we will remain in Arrow Creek and other factors that contribute to home values.
Now let’s assume that after several months of operating the Club at Arrow Creek, Arnold Palmer makes a business decision to not continue on with FOA. FOA offers the Club to the homeowners of Arrow Creek and the homeowners decline to buy the Club. FOA will probably not be able to find another buyer interested in owning a golf course/club. FOA will probably be able to find a developer to buy the land. Based on a letter by REreno, on February 18, 2015, “A Reno [Non-Arrow Creek] Point of View,” the county is now amenable to rezoning the course for development.
If REreno is accurately reporting his conversations, the developer would probably be able to have the 550 acres of golf course re-zoned to half acre lots. Allowing for roads, utilities and green space, that means about 500 houses could be build.
If this scenario is accurate, it suggests that the best way to preserve our community and home values is to buy the course, then we can decide if we want it to be “greenish” or “brownish”. That is—if the Club at Arrow Creek is not operating.
Feb 28, 2015 Response to Ben
Your letter is interesting from a scientific perspective. However, there are at least three factors missing from your analysis.
First, let’s start from the premise that the value attributable to the golf course is zero vs. 5%. What that then implies is that those living on the golf course only benefit from a view of ‘green open space.’ Since Arrow Creek does not guarantee ‘views (per the ACHOA Management company),’ This perceived value is only in the eye of the occupant/owner. So, if there’s a fee or special assessment imposed, those with this perceived value should pay the premium to maintain their perception. As a consequence, since the November 2014 projection was that it would take $1,086,000 per year to buy the club and there are approximately 350 lots directly affected (or only 32% of property owners – a minority), the owners of those lots should be assessed an additional $259.00 per month, thus maintaining the freedom of choice for the community and the views of the property owners affected. Some would say this is not a ‘community attitude.’ However, the majority of the property still would not see an increase or decrease in value due to a change in the golf courses status.
The second factor that was overlooked, is the matter of the 24/7 security enjoyed by our community. Since this is paid for through our normal assessments, it comes as no surprise that this contributes immensely to our property values. Reduced crime rates and the knowledge that strangers don’t just walk up to our doors is immensely important to the larger population who don’t participate in the golf experience or have an interest in it.
The third factor overlooked in your analysis is the FANTASTIC School located just outside of our gate, Hunsberger Elementary. This is one of the Blue Ribbon schools in the entire country and is a great resource for the young people residing in ArrowCreek. This factor alone makes our development highly desirable for younger families and provides a great deal of enjoyment to those of us who are grandparents. The value of this alone is worth at least 10% of our property values (see publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-you-need-to-research-school-districts-when-buying-a-home or Blue Ribbon Hunsberger Elementary.) We should do more to support it.
With all of the above, it’s difficult to fathom why the ACHOA should purchase a golf course. In fact, the ACHOA Board announced on 24 February 2015, that there currently is NO Plan to purchase the golf club or to enter into a joint venture.
The conversation continues.
Feb 19, 2015
Golf Course Questions
Has there been any discussion about what happens AFTER the golf course is acquired by the HOA (IF it is acquired by the HOA)?
1. Is there a measure of success for the golf course and restaurant? How will the profitability be measured? Is there any assurance that the golf club will be a success?
2. What happens IF the golf course runs into trouble after the acquisition? Will the HOA assessments continue to rise to cover the loss or is there a loss number that will trigger the HOA to close the restaurant and golf courses? Put another way, how long will the golf course be allowed to lose money before the HOA shuts it down?
Webmaster answer: I don’t know the answers to your questions so I will forward them on to Associa and the ACHOA for you.
Feb 17, 2015
WHY ARE WE PAYING FOR SOMEONE ELSE’S PLAYING?
Currently to be a member there are:
- No Initiation Fees
- Seldom is a private club w/o an initiation fee
- $475.00 a month fee for:
- Unlimited tee times
- Seven day advance booking
- Free storage of clubs
- Free locker
- Free cart usage
- Amenities at the clubhouse
- + Other
- Only a one year commitment by a member
Perhaps members should pay a onetime non-refundable initiation fee of $10,000.00
200 members = 2 million dollars
If the market will not bear this fee, then it is time to shut the club down.
Golf is down 40% in past decade
- If Reno has ten golf courses, four should close!
If the golf courses go brown, there would be negligible value decline in homes. If there were, it would be nowhere near the decline of home values during the recession that started in 2008.
Who cares if we are: ”Allowed’ to have dinner at the club dining room on Saturday nights.
Big deal! There are better restaurants not far from ArrowCreek that offer a better selection at a better quality and value.
If the club were to offer better food at a better quality, the expenses of running the club will increase as will the cost of dining at the club.
If this is such a good deal, let the “Friends of ArrowCreek” own it and make a profit on it!
For the Record –
I live on private golf courses in MN and FL.
In neither case do they make me feel obligated to pay for the pristine conditions of the respective courses nor the view I have.
It is up to the members.
If ArrowCreek members cannot afford to pay, they cannot afford to play.
Feb 15, 2015
After much research and being involved in discussions with all of you intelligent individuals, it is clear the ACHOA has breached their fiduciary duty to the residents. Further, the golf course here at ArrowCreek has never made money, so why would anyone believe that it ever will. Not only my immediate family but other family members bought in ArrowCreek because we wanted to live in a gated community with security, a pool, gym facility, tennis courts and playgrounds. The golf course was not a factor. We knew it was in failing condition, and we knew we could join if we wanted. I did join the club and was a member for almost two years. I can tell you the reason I left the club is simple: I am not one that talks through his teeth and requires the status of belonging to a club to make me feel important. I wanted to play golf, period. Why would I play on a course that is horribly maintained when I can play at Wolf Run or other locations that are better maintained, cost less and don’t have drama?
I am a United States Marine Corps Veteran. Freedom of choice is huge for me. It is what I fought for. The FOA and ACHOA stand to make money on this deal by stealing money out of our pockets. Lastly, I am sure if you have small children, you’ve been at the pool on those super hot summer days – it is crowded. I can’t imagine how crowded it will be should the club members be able to use our pool (not to mention the wear and tear on our facilities).
By the way, there is a house at 6220 Sierra Mesa MLS# 150000903 that is listed for $899,500 and is posted as pending sale. It looks onto the mid fairway of the 14th hole for the challenge course. So with all the gloom and doom of the golf course going bankrupt and being purchased by the FOA and everything else, this home is selling for over $200K more than it would have sold for two years ago. There is a lot of money headed to Reno with Apple, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Tesla and so on; a golf course is going to be viewed like a swimming pool at your house. A requirement for some, not wanted by others. There isn’t a golf course in the Joy Lake Road Community off of Mt. Rose, or on Monte Vista and they are surrounded by “dangerous fire fueling sage brush” and other insurance hazards.
The FOA is playing on the ignorance of many. Other ArrowCreek Residents living here thought the “deal was done” and that the golf course was not going to be purchased by the ACHOA. The TV and newspaper news blitz about the club going private made a lot of people think it is all over.
Feb 15, 2015
The community I lived in in South Carolina had a big golf issue six or seven years ago. What happened is that the bylaws required 2/3 of all owners’ approval of an amendment submitted by the Board. The amendment sought to raise annual HOA fees by more than the 10% maximum in the bylaws. The purpose of this increase would be to give all property owners access to unlimited golf. Sounds okay on the surface but dig beneath it. Property owners (golfers or not) were already subsidizing the golf course in their dues . . . paying for maintenance, capital improvements and depreciation charges. All that seemed reasonable but now the HOA Board, controlled tightly then and now by golfers, wanted everyone in the community, golfers and non golfers alike, to pay the greens fees for the golfers.
I was part of a group that overcame numerous cleverly placed obstacles and raised enough homeowner interest to prevent the passage of the amendment.
Undaunted, the Board then established a voluntary annual golf fee of $1,000 (well below cost). The community includes some avid golfers who play four or more rounds per week. That would translate to a greens fee of about $5 per round. In the years that have passed since then the Board has looked at the Property Owners dues and the golf fee each year. The decision has always been the same . . . raise the dues an average of 4% per year and do not raise the golf fees.
The community has a range of properties ranging from upwards of a million dollars down to very small condominium units frequently owned by a fixed income couple or surviving spouse who has little or no interest in golf. I was always amazed at the blatant eagerness on the part of the golf community to get others in the community to increasingly subsidize their lifestyle. I have grossly simplified this issue to boil it down for you. There are other amenities involved . . . but the core issue has always been golf.
Feb 06, 2015
It appears like a reckless move for the “Friends of ArrowCreek” to have purchased the Golf Course without the input of the home owners and then come back to us to recap their acquisition costs. Also, the homeowners will have to bear all the ongoing administrative and affiliated costs going forward which will be set unilaterally by the “Friends” with NO CAP. There is also the cost of this campaign of the “Friends.” All of this leads to an increase of the HOA dues with no benefit for homeowners, such as myself, who do not utilize the golf course.
The high HOA dues will negatively impact the value of homes in ArrowCreek. The opening of the Recreational Center to people outside of ArrowCreek will also negatively impact the value of our homes and could lead to future lawsuits from injuries and death due to the overcrowding of the facility.
A concerned homeowner
Feb 06, 2015
(from a mailed letter received yesterday)
A Letter to the Webmaster from ANON
In the Jan 30, 2015, Reno Gazette Journal article, Gary Pestello said that the golf club had been private. He needs to do his homework because as an original owner, as we are, we know that the Golf Club, Restaurant & Bar were open to the public – ArrowCreek residents. We used to have breakfast there after our daily walk. The Holiday events were also open to residents. It was only in 2004 that The Golf Club started the Equity memberships. When we bought our house, it was said by Terrabrook that the club would be open to all AC residents. That’s one of the reasons we bought here.
We tried selling our home last summer but due to the bankruptcy issue we took it off the market and leased it until this issue with the golf course gets settled.
I wish I was still there to help in this issue. My husband and I are really concerned, especially now, with the intention of selling in the near future. We cannot have our dues go up or no one will want to move in – and there will be many existing owners not able to afford it.
Thank you for the letter and hopefully it opens all of AC residents’ eyes to the financial liabilities and loan payments that could occur if the HOA buys the golf course.
Jan 29, 2015
(copied from the comment on the About page)
We feel that with the Board of the ACHOA so pro buying the club, it is very important that members that are not pro buying the club be present at any and all vote counts.
Jerry and Sarita Snow
Jan 12, 2015
I am already planning to put my house on the market the minute that a vote goes through authorizing the purchase of the golf club. You more adventurous folks take your chances and put yourself in a position where the board can decide to spend your HOA money as they see fit. They’ve already spent upwards of $25,000 on this proposition and that’s just the start.
No, I ‘ll be selling and don’t be surprised if you see signs popping up in your neighborhood if an affirmative vote comes in. The increased supply of houses on the market in Arrowcreek and the increased dues should lead to
some healthy competition for the few buyers wanting to enter this fray. Won ‘t they be happy?
At this point, I’ll still vote no. It sticks in my craw to have other people tell me how to spend what few disposable dollars I have left each month. My peace and serenity on Arrowcreek have been shattered by this blatant grab for HOA money ( plus don’t forget the 12 per cent interest — btw what are YOU earning on your money right now?)
Jan 05, 2015
Why I am not Interested in Owning the Golf Club
1. It is already owned and operated by a group of people that either live on the golf course, like to golf, or are investors in the club. They have a vested interest in the success of the club and I trust they will protect their interest.
2. I don’t want to own a business in a declining industry.
3. I don’t want to own a business that I don’t control.
4. I just want to reside in ArrowCreek; not worry about running a business in ArrowCreek.
5. Lastly, I don’t want my HOA fees being raised whenever some special committee decides they need more money for the golf club.
Jan 03, 2015
Is ArrowCreek Really a Common Interest Community?
I originally posed the subject question in my bid for a seat on the ArrowCreek Board of Directors. Over the past month I’ve listened to my neighbors, both at my home and during the Concerned Neighbors of ArrowCreek (CNA) presentations at the Residents Center. I’ve found that the very simple answer to the question is; YES! but it is not found in the legalese of NRS116 but rather in the hearts and minds of the property owners.
The common interests the neighbors continuously refer to are Security, Serenity and Flexibility to choose what they participate in within and without the community. In addition to listening, I’ve paid a lot amount of attention to the records pertaining to our ‘community.’ That is what a good System Engineer, such as myself, should do – see how small details fit together to make up the ‘big picture.’ Those records indicate that about 27% of us appreciate the golf ambiance. Additionally, our community is viewed as an investor friendly location where 33% of the property is owned for profit (community loyalty and interest in this segment may be on the low side). That leaves 40% of the community to enjoy the freedom and flexibility to participate, or not, depending upon our desires. It’s this latter group that definitely resists being put into a box and told to sit back and enjoy the benefits you’re offered. If you choose to not participate, we’ll gladly take your money any way – and if you still don’t like it, you can leave.
So, the message to the COMMUNITY is to focus on our common interests and change the course of trying to force us ALL to contribute to something we did not buy into from the beginning. Stop the nonsense and scare tactics of what a horrible place this would be if not everyone were contributing to a golf club. FOA has repeatedly said they are in this for the ‘long haul.’ So let them continue operating ‘The Club at ArrowCreek’ with Arnold Palmer Group (APG) as they both build up the volunteer social memberships that are needed to eventually spike into the big black dollars the way they do in the presentation charts APG showed us on December 9, 2014.
P.S. If you wish to see the details behind the numbers, I’ll gladly show that to you but NOT in an e-mail. it took a lot of effort to compile the data.
Dec 31, 2014
To the Pros and the Cons of the HOA potential purchase of The Club at ArrowCreek and the HOA,
I love ArrowCreek and I will probably vote yes on the proposition, at least that’s my thought right now. My problem is that I hate to see all the animosity and anger that is beginning to brew in ArrowCreek. It is getting worse instead of better. I think ArrowCreek has the potential to be the prime residential area in Reno. The people here are awesome. I love the folks I meet at the gym, walking the circle and surrounding streets, the golf club, all the social activities that I am involved in, etc.
Charlie (former owner of ArrowCreek) has run the golf club into the ground over the past 7 years. He went into bankruptcy in Jan. 2014 and several (apparently 36) friends and neighbors formed the Friends of ArrowCreek (FOA) by investing money. I know several of these folks, some have a lot of money and some do not. I do not have a list of these folks nor do I want one. I feel that it is none of my business where people invest their money as long as it’s legal. I don’t want people to know where I invest my money either (I am not an FOA investor). Some of the FOA have talked about the concern of how hostile the negative folks are and don’t want to be known for fear of retaliation. Several months ago the FOA proposed that the HOA buy the course, but the HOA does not move that fast and that is part of the reason that the FOA was formed and fought Charlie in court to win the club. A very comprehensive study was done earlier this year and I saw the presentation at an HOA meeting, it showed that the country club was important to our neighborhood, whoever owned it was irrelevant. The FOA never intended to run a golf club on a long term basis. This was a stop-gap or bridge loan to help save the club and preserve the value of our neighborhood until the HOA could/would purchase it (that was their hope). They have partnered with Arnold Palmer Golf Management to run the club. This would be a joint venture with the HOA. The Arnold Palmer group has been successful with similar ventures and the potential for profit is probable.
During the past few years as the club became less and less desirable, people left. They canceled their memberships, events had fewer attendees, and the place was beginning to get run down. I remember a realtor telling me that she didn’t want to show ArrowCreek properties to new clients because of the state of the club and the unknown as to whether or not it would stick around. Mind you I am sure they never turned anyone away that wanted to see ArrowCreek. ArrowCreek is marketed as a gated golf course community and should remain as such.
Both sides are using scare tactics and getting way too emotional. I understand being passionate about a subject but can’t we all be adults and respect each other’s opinions? Opinions are meant to be shared but not necessarily accepted. You will never get all the people on one side, it just isn’t possible. But what is really right for ArrowCreek? We don’t really know. We can only research, gather facts and make that decision on our own, not because someone brow beat us. Let’s share the same FACTS. Not myths. Not numbers that have been skewed by statistics, you can make a number anything you want it to be if you use the right formula. There is no house in Reno that has gone up 43% (per info from meeting at the residents club and on the website arrowcreek411.wordpress.com). I know there was an asterisk next to the 43% but no one looks at that. There was also talk about your home would become collateral if the HOA bought the course, well, you home already is collateral if you belong to the HOA, nothing changes there. Let’s not try to fool each other. Let’s come together and let the people of ArrowCreek decide what is best. Again, based on facts. The people here in ArrowCreek want their voices heard but they also want us to do this as adults as opposed to bickering politicians that slant everything to one side. I have heard from several on both sides of the fence about how ugly this fight is getting and it is pulling ArrowCreek apart. That is not what we want. Whatever vote prevails should not drive us to be divided as residents.
There was talk at one meeting about the Kool-Aid, don’t drink the Kool-Aid. I have a better idea; let’s not make the Kool-Aid to begin with!
Is there room for negotiation? Yes. The increase of dues by $99 is big. We have a lot of young families and $99 can really impact their budget. What are they getting for the increase? Since the club has been turned over to the FOA there seems to be a renewed excitement. Old members that left under Charlie’s regime have come back. Events are better attended, often to capacity. Maybe that increased dues number can be lowered to something more tolerable. Maybe offer more amenities to the residents for their increase. Maybe they get some limited golf rounds or reduced cost of play on both the Legend and the Challenge. Maybe if this club is successful enough we can get our HOA dues reduced. I don’t know the answer but let’s work together on it.
Could ArrowCreek really turn brown? Maybe. Charlie had the course on the market for 3-1/2 years and didn’t get any bites. The FOA and many residents are concerned that if the club does not become profitable soon then it may turn brown. Many of the investors are not prepared to put up any more money. If the FOA winds up bankrupt and had to walk away, then yes, the course will probably go brown. Will all of us do what we can to prevent that, I hope so. But it is a possibility and should not be presented as a threat or a myth, just a fact. The FOA are not interested in running the club without the HOA buy in. Without Arnold Palmer, the FOA is not experienced at running a club and if they are unable to sell in a reasonable amount of time, then it would be bad news for the courses. There are a lot of possibilities.
What happens to the club house? Will it sit empty? Broken windows, graffiti? Kids hanging out, drugs, drinking? Possible. Not a threat or a myth, but possible. We are a gated community but we are not as secure as some might think. You can drive in the back road, although you are not supposed to. We have approximately 20% renters in ArrowCreek. Many are here because they want to be in the school system. That means kids and kids with friends. Are most of them responsible, yes, I like to believe that. All of them? Probably not. That could mean anything, but no guarantees. We have had problems with graffiti and vandalism in the past. There have been break ins. Our community is not immune to the problems in society. The good news is we are out of the way so it helps to secure us just by location. If we are united we can minimize the troubles, but divided makes the risk that much higher. Keep on mind, in this scenario the HOA won’t own this property so it will not be patrolled or secured by our security.
ArrowCreek is the best place to live. Let’s not turn this into a civil war. This really is small stuff in the grand scheme of life, so let’s not sweat it. Let’s come together as the great community that we are and share our thoughts, concerns and facts. Let us all make the right decision for ourselves and for ArrowCreek based on the same facts not myths and scare tactics. Why do we have two camps? Why are we so divided? We should be one regardless of how we feel or wish to vote. There should be one shared web site. There should be unbiased meetings. How about a mediator? Unbiased mediator to run all organized meetings? Just my thoughts and concerns, but I don’t believe I am alone in these views.
Dec 31, 2014
I am a member of The Club at Arrow Creek. I am not a FOA.
I live on the 8th Fairway of the Legend Course—Copper Cloud Dr.
I am a scientist: I earn my income by correctly reading (interpreting) numbers. Science numbers and dollars. I have visited D’Andrea and Somersett.
Before I make a decision about the proposal to purchase The Club, I want to see the numbers for the purchase. I want to see how much we will pay (my monthly dues). I want to see what Arnold Palmer is going to do for us and their share of the potential Reward.
If the numbers work for the purchase of The Club, and the conversion of The Club and Homeowners Association to a Family Orientated Community, it makes sense.
If the numbers don’t work for the purchase, I will be concerned and troubled because I think the FOA will have to let the fairways go to brush (brown). I think this because the FOA will likely not continue to run it. As we have heard it requires considerably more income than it is currently bringing in without the social memberships of the Arrow Creek community.
If we don’t buy it, I think the FOA will try keep it going for a few years while they try to find a buyer. I do not think they will find another buyer.
I suspect that the FOA will not continue to spend more money, with no chance of getting a return on their investment, for more than a few years.
If the FOA sold the land to a developer, and the developer obtained all the necessary permits to build roads and houses, the home owners would access their homes via our gate. In addition, they would form a HOA and we would have to deal with their HOA. We would not have any control over building guidelines or landscaping other than normal input into zoning changes.
So if we do not buy it, I think the final events will be: The FOA makes a business decision to stop funding the course; they let the employees go, and shut off the water. Their expenses will be much less but they still have payments for insurance on the club house as well as, taxes on the building and land. They stand to lose a lot. We stand to lose more.
APG has invested time and money with the FOA, and would be investing money & time with us, so they want the proposal (JV) to work. As professionals in the business, I believe they can do a much better job at the various activities they are proposing than volunteer committees we might assemble.
What are our choices: If the numbers look acceptable to me, I will vote to invest. If the numbers are not acceptable (regardless of what AP is proposing), I am not sure what to do.
It seems to me that this is a “one shot deal”: If we don’t buy it, the 500 acres that are green will go brown. There will be a fire hazard at the Club House area and all the growing brush in fairways and surrounding land will become fire fuels. I am not sure who would own the land (maybe the County) and if they would let us spend our money to remove the fire danger.
The Board members live here. The board has no interest in the purchase of the Golf course that I don’t have. If we don’t buy, I will go to Wolf Run and play. And, if I don’t like what the board is doing, I help elect new board members who think more like I do.
My thinking today (12/31/14) is: Am I willing to increase my monthly fees (number to be clarified in a few months) to protect and increase my investment in house and community, or run the continuing risk of a fire. If the number is close to the $99 estimate, I say, “yes”.
Ben Collins, Ph.D.
Dec 11, 2014
There are alternatives to homeowners owning the golf course, while preserving our property values and making ArrowCreek a wonderful place for families, retirees, golfers and non golfers to live.
Next Monday, December 15 and Wednesday, December 17 at 1:30, and Saturday, December 20 at 10 AM and 1 PM in the Residents Center meeting room we will show a thoughtful Power Point, followed by discussion and Q&A. 90 minutes should be sufficient.
Please try to attend. Invite your neighbors. It shouldn’t matter if those leaning toward GC purchase attend. Our intent is raise questions, seek answers, express concern, and get people thinking and informed.
Ask yourself: should a large majority of owners who don’t golf, subsidize the expensive hobby of the small minority who do?
If you can give me an idea of your intention to attend, please do so, and tell me which day.
Wayne Krachun 851-4654
Dec 6, 2014
Call me old-fashioned or skeptical, but I like to know who I am buying something from, especially when the purchase is in the millions of dollars.
When people outright refuse to identify themselves except by general descriptions (e.g. we all live in the community so don’t worry about our motives) I still worry. Maybe that’s because of my background as a practicing attorney but I don’t want to buy anything from people who feel they have a reason to remain anonymous. And why our board refuses to press that issue is incredulous to me. I would tell them to go pound sand until they want to disclose their member names.
What do you think the chances are that they all own lots backing up to the golfcourse and are worried about THEIR property values? I hate to have to conjecture, but they are the ones who have created a situation of secrecy.
I still say let them run their business for a couple of years. If they are a massive success they won’t want to sell to us. And if they are not the price and terms should be more attractive and flexible than now.
This minimizes the risk to the HOA and, in my view, is the only reasonable path forward.
Call Me Old-Fashioned
Dec 7, 2014
In our HOA December Newsletter President of the HOA Sam Fox writes, “…It is imagined that this Joint Venture will run the golf courses, activities, swimming pools, fitness center and other recreational activities within the ACHOA. This is similar to current activities that are occurring at Somersett HOA concerning their golf course operations and recreational facilities.”
First of all, I personally do not like an ‘outside’ organization controlling assets and activities that I/we already own! Second, if you review our community/citizens web site, https://arrowcreek411.wordpress.com, you’ll see that Somersett is involved in several legal entanglements related to Mr. Fox’s statement. Third, do we, the owner’s of ArrowCreek, want this same future? Where we’re suing ourselves?? (BTW only 30%, 900 ballots out of a possible 2700, of the owners voted)
We need to slow this train down or bring it to a complete halt. Mr. Fox appears to live in a world very different from mine.
A Concerned Citizen