Views and Voices of ArrowCreek Property Owners
———————————————————————–
November 12, 2015
Watch Out!
I hope your election will be conducted without any “trickery” . . .
That is: (1) no opening of ballots on weekly basis. Set a single deadline for ballots to be received and a single date for the ballots to be opened in front of owners;
and (2) no extensions to the ballot to be received by deadline.
Good luck to all. I have no stake in the game. Just believe in fair elections.
B. Alert
———————————————————————–
November 01, 2015
What’s Going On? The ACHOA Board and Committees: Who is controlling your destiny?
The Board will vote on the managing company contract on November 3rd. A revised tentative timeline for the golf course purchase will also be presented at that meeting. Three Board member positions are up for election this December (two pro golf course purchase: Rakusin, Elliot, one against: Krisch) The proposed tentative voting period regarding the Golf Course purchase proposal is to start on December 15th when ballots are to be mailed out following the distribution of background materials on 23 November.
———————————————————————–
April 17, 2015 at 8:54 am (comment from “About” page)
ACHOA Golf Course Push
It is unbelievable to me how much the ACHOA is pushing to buy this golf course, and what a bad decision it is. When I moved to ArrowCreek six months ago, I was told that if the golf course was purchased that HOA fees would increase $80/month. Now I’m hearing $100/month. (That’s a 25% increase from the original estimate.) There’s a multi-year drought in process. This area is over-run with golf courses. And now I’m getting propaganda from the ACHOA. They sent a “study” showing how golf course proximity improves home values. (Never mind that most of those studies occurred during the housing bubble when everyone wanted “bigger and better” and in the post-Recession world people want “reasonable and affordable.”) The studies did not make any mention of how HOA fees negatively affect housing values. If this golf course is purchased, our HOA fees will be significantly higher than in Montreaux, which has a course most golfers would prefer to Arrowcreek’s.
Then I received a letter about how the Friends of ArrowCreek who currently own the golf course had halted negotiations, but our HOA was pushing forward. Why in the hell would our HOA keep pushing? I thought we were supposed to be the last ditch buyer in the event that the club had no other options. Now the current owners are trying to raise membership to raise the price on us. Let the Friends of Arrowcreek keep their investment. If their plans to improve it work out well, I will wish them nothing but the best with their business decision. But they can’t aim high, then dump the golf course on the rest of us if it doesn’t work out. This is ludicrous! ACHOA has no business running a business. Having a Starbucks nearby increases home values. Will ACHOA next suggest that we all pitch in to build a Starbucks and our ridiculously beauracratic HOA will run it?!!
I have plenty of expensive hobbies like Scuba diving, travel and snowboarding. I don’t expect anyone to subsidize my decisions. Conversely, I admire people who find enjoyment in golf, but if that’s their decision, they can pay for it themselves. What the ACHOA is attempting is what Warren Buffett calls “the corporate imperative” which means that people in power are constantly pushing to expand the scope and reach of their power, always using other people’s money to do so.
Jason
———————————————————————–
Apr 16, 2015
April 14, 2015 ACHOA Board Meeting
I think the (April 14, 2015) ACHOA Board meeting went awful with the board not being able to reign in the clubbers. It just shows the level of intelligence of the attendees. I was particularly taken by the gentleman who wanted an immediate vote to acquire the golf course. That was one of the most unrealistic remarks I have heard yet. To buy the course now, without any financial information would be irresponsible. If there would be a vote now, it should be to determine if anyone is interested in buying the Club. The ACHOA should have asked the members if they would be interested before investing much time and money to get where we are now.
Another point: I believe the Board meetings should be held as non-alcoholic events. With issue discussions as important as we are currently having, it is important to have clear minds before rendering comments. I agree, we should let APG/FOA run the Club and leave the ACHOA out of it.
In regard to ACHOA activities, I also agree, the Residents Club doesn’t have the type of activities as is now being conducted at the Club at ArrowCreek. These type of activities have nothing to do with Golf. Their recent activities have been open for AC residents to attend. My earlier comments are still valid about why they aren’t being held at the Residents Club. That is Our Community Club. If the Board would spend as much time planning our Community activities as they are spending on the Golf Club fiasco, we would all be better off.
We should strive to get more residents involved and return this great place to live without the golf course headache.
Dave Lee
———————————————————————–
Feb 27, 2015
What Happens to Our Home Values
We have several reports that suggest the value of homes in a gated community are increased from zero to more than 30 percent if there is a golf course in the community. (How) can we use those numbers to help us evaluate their possible effect on home values in Arrow Creek. I think the following example is a possibility.
Let’s say that the value of a ‘home’ in Arrow Creek is increased by 5 percent since there is an operating golf course in our community. It is likewise fair to say that the value of that home would decrease by 5 percent if the golf course closes (and goes to brush).
Let’s also say that the value of that home is $500,000. If the golf course closes, it is fair to say that the value of the home decreases by that 5 percent or $25,000.
The most common number we hear for the increase in HOA dues is about $99 per month. If we do not buy the Club, we save about $100 per month or about $1,200 per year. In about 20 years we would have saved that $25,000 in home value that we spent when the club closed.
We can chose other numbers for the effect that a golf course has on home values and for the HOA dues, and we can speculate how long we will remain in Arrow Creek and other factors that contribute to home values.
Now let’s assume that after several months of operating the Club at Arrow Creek, Arnold Palmer makes a business decision to not continue on with FOA. FOA offers the Club to the homeowners of Arrow Creek and the homeowners decline to buy the Club. FOA will probably not be able to find another buyer interested in owning a golf course/club. FOA will probably be able to find a developer to buy the land. Based on a letter by REreno, on February 18, 2015, “A Reno [Non-Arrow Creek] Point of View,” the county is now amenable to rezoning the course for development.
If REreno is accurately reporting his conversations, the developer would probably be able to have the 550 acres of golf course re-zoned to half acre lots. Allowing for roads, utilities and green space, that means about 500 houses could be build.
If this scenario is accurate, it suggests that the best way to preserve our community and home values is to buy the course, then we can decide if we want it to be “greenish” or “brownish”. That is—if the Club at Arrow Creek is not operating.
Ben Collins
###
Feb 28, 2015 Response to Ben
Ben,
Your letter is interesting from a scientific perspective. However, there are at least three factors missing from your analysis.
First, let’s start from the premise that the value attributable to the golf course is zero vs. 5%. What that then implies is that those living on the golf course only benefit from a view of ‘green open space.’ Since Arrow Creek does not guarantee ‘views (per the ACHOA Management company),’ This perceived value is only in the eye of the occupant/owner. So, if there’s a fee or special assessment imposed, those with this perceived value should pay the premium to maintain their perception. As a consequence, since the November 2014 projection was that it would take $1,086,000 per year to buy the club and there are approximately 350 lots directly affected (or only 32% of property owners – a minority), the owners of those lots should be assessed an additional $259.00 per month, thus maintaining the freedom of choice for the community and the views of the property owners affected. Some would say this is not a ‘community attitude.’ However, the majority of the property still would not see an increase or decrease in value due to a change in the golf courses status.
The second factor that was overlooked, is the matter of the 24/7 security enjoyed by our community. Since this is paid for through our normal assessments, it comes as no surprise that this contributes immensely to our property values. Reduced crime rates and the knowledge that strangers don’t just walk up to our doors is immensely important to the larger population who don’t participate in the golf experience or have an interest in it.
The third factor overlooked in your analysis is the FANTASTIC School located just outside of our gate, Hunsberger Elementary. This is one of the Blue Ribbon schools in the entire country and is a great resource for the young people residing in ArrowCreek. This factor alone makes our development highly desirable for younger families and provides a great deal of enjoyment to those of us who are grandparents. The value of this alone is worth at least 10% of our property values (see publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-you-need-to-research-school-districts-when-buying-a-home or Blue Ribbon Hunsberger Elementary.) We should do more to support it.
With all of the above, it’s difficult to fathom why the ACHOA should purchase a golf course. In fact, the ACHOA Board announced on 24 February 2015, that there currently is NO Plan to purchase the golf club or to enter into a joint venture.
The conversation continues.
Ron Duncan
———————————————————————–
Feb 19, 2015
Golf Course Questions
Has there been any discussion about what happens AFTER the golf course is acquired by the HOA (IF it is acquired by the HOA)?
1. Is there a measure of success for the golf course and restaurant? How will the profitability be measured? Is there any assurance that the golf club will be a success?
2. What happens IF the golf course runs into trouble after the acquisition? Will the HOA assessments continue to rise to cover the loss or is there a loss number that will trigger the HOA to close the restaurant and golf courses? Put another way, how long will the golf course be allowed to lose money before the HOA shuts it down?
Just Curious
Webmaster answer: I don’t know the answers to your questions so I will forward them on to Associa and the ACHOA for you.
———————————————————————–
Feb 17, 2015
WHY ARE WE PAYING FOR SOMEONE ELSE’S PLAYING?
Currently to be a member there are:
- No Initiation Fees
- Seldom is a private club w/o an initiation fee
- $475.00 a month fee for:
- Unlimited tee times
- Seven day advance booking
- Free storage of clubs
- Free locker
- Free cart usage
- Amenities at the clubhouse
- Corkage
- + Other
- Only a one year commitment by a member
Perhaps members should pay a onetime non-refundable initiation fee of $10,000.00
200 members = 2 million dollars
If the market will not bear this fee, then it is time to shut the club down.
Golf is down 40% in past decade
- If Reno has ten golf courses, four should close!
If the golf courses go brown, there would be negligible value decline in homes. If there were, it would be nowhere near the decline of home values during the recession that started in 2008.
Who cares if we are: ”Allowed’ to have dinner at the club dining room on Saturday nights.
Big deal! There are better restaurants not far from ArrowCreek that offer a better selection at a better quality and value.
If the club were to offer better food at a better quality, the expenses of running the club will increase as will the cost of dining at the club.
If this is such a good deal, let the “Friends of ArrowCreek” own it and make a profit on it!
For the Record –
I live on private golf courses in MN and FL.
In neither case do they make me feel obligated to pay for the pristine conditions of the respective courses nor the view I have.
It is up to the members.
If ArrowCreek members cannot afford to pay, they cannot afford to play.
PA
———————————————————————–
Feb 15, 2015
After much research and being involved in discussions with all of you intelligent individuals, it is clear the ACHOA has breached their fiduciary duty to the residents. Further, the golf course here at ArrowCreek has never made money, so why would anyone believe that it ever will. Not only my immediate family but other family members bought in ArrowCreek because we wanted to live in a gated community with security, a pool, gym facility, tennis courts and playgrounds. The golf course was not a factor. We knew it was in failing condition, and we knew we could join if we wanted. I did join the club and was a member for almost two years. I can tell you the reason I left the club is simple: I am not one that talks through his teeth and requires the status of belonging to a club to make me feel important. I wanted to play golf, period. Why would I play on a course that is horribly maintained when I can play at Wolf Run or other locations that are better maintained, cost less and don’t have drama?
I am a United States Marine Corps Veteran. Freedom of choice is huge for me. It is what I fought for. The FOA and ACHOA stand to make money on this deal by stealing money out of our pockets. Lastly, I am sure if you have small children, you’ve been at the pool on those super hot summer days – it is crowded. I can’t imagine how crowded it will be should the club members be able to use our pool (not to mention the wear and tear on our facilities).
By the way, there is a house at 6220 Sierra Mesa MLS# 150000903 that is listed for $899,500 and is posted as pending sale. It looks onto the mid fairway of the 14th hole for the challenge course. So with all the gloom and doom of the golf course going bankrupt and being purchased by the FOA and everything else, this home is selling for over $200K more than it would have sold for two years ago. There is a lot of money headed to Reno with Apple, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Tesla and so on; a golf course is going to be viewed like a swimming pool at your house. A requirement for some, not wanted by others. There isn’t a golf course in the Joy Lake Road Community off of Mt. Rose, or on Monte Vista and they are surrounded by “dangerous fire fueling sage brush” and other insurance hazards.
The FOA is playing on the ignorance of many. Other ArrowCreek Residents living here thought the “deal was done” and that the golf course was not going to be purchased by the ACHOA. The TV and newspaper news blitz about the club going private made a lot of people think it is all over.
Semper Fi
———————————————————————–
Feb 15, 2015
The community I lived in in South Carolina had a big golf issue six or seven years ago. What happened is that the bylaws required 2/3 of all owners’ approval of an amendment submitted by the Board. The amendment sought to raise annual HOA fees by more than the 10% maximum in the bylaws. The purpose of this increase would be to give all property owners access to unlimited golf. Sounds okay on the surface but dig beneath it. Property owners (golfers or not) were already subsidizing the golf course in their dues . . . paying for maintenance, capital improvements and depreciation charges. All that seemed reasonable but now the HOA Board, controlled tightly then and now by golfers, wanted everyone in the community, golfers and non golfers alike, to pay the greens fees for the golfers.
I was part of a group that overcame numerous cleverly placed obstacles and raised enough homeowner interest to prevent the passage of the amendment.
Undaunted, the Board then established a voluntary annual golf fee of $1,000 (well below cost). The community includes some avid golfers who play four or more rounds per week. That would translate to a greens fee of about $5 per round. In the years that have passed since then the Board has looked at the Property Owners dues and the golf fee each year. The decision has always been the same . . . raise the dues an average of 4% per year and do not raise the golf fees.
The community has a range of properties ranging from upwards of a million dollars down to very small condominium units frequently owned by a fixed income couple or surviving spouse who has little or no interest in golf. I was always amazed at the blatant eagerness on the part of the golf community to get others in the community to increasingly subsidize their lifestyle. I have grossly simplified this issue to boil it down for you. There are other amenities involved . . . but the core issue has always been golf.
Jim
———————————————————————–
Feb 06, 2015
It appears like a reckless move for the “Friends of ArrowCreek” to have purchased the Golf Course without the input of the home owners and then come back to us to recap their acquisition costs. Also, the homeowners will have to bear all the ongoing administrative and affiliated costs going forward which will be set unilaterally by the “Friends” with NO CAP. There is also the cost of this campaign of the “Friends.” All of this leads to an increase of the HOA dues with no benefit for homeowners, such as myself, who do not utilize the golf course.
The high HOA dues will negatively impact the value of homes in ArrowCreek. The opening of the Recreational Center to people outside of ArrowCreek will also negatively impact the value of our homes and could lead to future lawsuits from injuries and death due to the overcrowding of the facility.
Sincerely,
Hester Bond
A concerned homeowner
———————————————————————–
Feb 06, 2015
(from a mailed letter received yesterday)
A Letter to the Webmaster from ANON
In the Jan 30, 2015, Reno Gazette Journal article, Gary Pestello said that the golf club had been private. He needs to do his homework because as an original owner, as we are, we know that the Golf Club, Restaurant & Bar were open to the public – ArrowCreek residents. We used to have breakfast there after our daily walk. The Holiday events were also open to residents. It was only in 2004 that The Golf Club started the Equity memberships. When we bought our house, it was said by Terrabrook that the club would be open to all AC residents. That’s one of the reasons we bought here.
We tried selling our home last summer but due to the bankruptcy issue we took it off the market and leased it until this issue with the golf course gets settled.
I wish I was still there to help in this issue. My husband and I are really concerned, especially now, with the intention of selling in the near future. We cannot have our dues go up or no one will want to move in – and there will be many existing owners not able to afford it.
Thank you for the letter and hopefully it opens all of AC residents’ eyes to the financial liabilities and loan payments that could occur if the HOA buys the golf course.
Regards,
ANON
———————————————————————–
Jan 29, 2015
(copied from the comment on the About page)
We feel that with the Board of the ACHOA so pro buying the club, it is very important that members that are not pro buying the club be present at any and all vote counts.
Jerry and Sarita Snow
———————————————————————–
Jan 12, 2015
I am already planning to put my house on the market the minute that a vote goes through authorizing the purchase of the golf club. You more adventurous folks take your chances and put yourself in a position where the board can decide to spend your HOA money as they see fit. They’ve already spent upwards of $25,000 on this proposition and that’s just the start.
No, I ‘ll be selling and don’t be surprised if you see signs popping up in your neighborhood if an affirmative vote comes in. The increased supply of houses on the market in Arrowcreek and the increased dues should lead to
some healthy competition for the few buyers wanting to enter this fray. Won ‘t they be happy?
At this point, I’ll still vote no. It sticks in my craw to have other people tell me how to spend what few disposable dollars I have left each month. My peace and serenity on Arrowcreek have been shattered by this blatant grab for HOA money ( plus don’t forget the 12 per cent interest — btw what are YOU earning on your money right now?)
Very Sad.
———————————————————————–
Jan 05, 2015
Why I am not Interested in Owning the Golf Club
1. It is already owned and operated by a group of people that either live on the golf course, like to golf, or are investors in the club. They have a vested interest in the success of the club and I trust they will protect their interest.
2. I don’t want to own a business in a declining industry.
3. I don’t want to own a business that I don’t control.
4. I just want to reside in ArrowCreek; not worry about running a business in ArrowCreek.
5. Lastly, I don’t want my HOA fees being raised whenever some special committee decides they need more money for the golf club.
Steve Jones
———————————————————————–
Jan 03, 2015
Is ArrowCreek Really a Common Interest Community?
I originally posed the subject question in my bid for a seat on the ArrowCreek Board of Directors. Over the past month I’ve listened to my neighbors, both at my home and during the Concerned Neighbors of ArrowCreek (CNA) presentations at the Residents Center. I’ve found that the very simple answer to the question is; YES! but it is not found in the legalese of NRS116 but rather in the hearts and minds of the property owners.
The common interests the neighbors continuously refer to are Security, Serenity and Flexibility to choose what they participate in within and without the community. In addition to listening, I’ve paid a lot amount of attention to the records pertaining to our ‘community.’ That is what a good System Engineer, such as myself, should do – see how small details fit together to make up the ‘big picture.’ Those records indicate that about 27% of us appreciate the golf ambiance. Additionally, our community is viewed as an investor friendly location where 33% of the property is owned for profit (community loyalty and interest in this segment may be on the low side). That leaves 40% of the community to enjoy the freedom and flexibility to participate, or not, depending upon our desires. It’s this latter group that definitely resists being put into a box and told to sit back and enjoy the benefits you’re offered. If you choose to not participate, we’ll gladly take your money any way – and if you still don’t like it, you can leave.
So, the message to the COMMUNITY is to focus on our common interests and change the course of trying to force us ALL to contribute to something we did not buy into from the beginning. Stop the nonsense and scare tactics of what a horrible place this would be if not everyone were contributing to a golf club. FOA has repeatedly said they are in this for the ‘long haul.’ So let them continue operating ‘The Club at ArrowCreek’ with Arnold Palmer Group (APG) as they both build up the volunteer social memberships that are needed to eventually spike into the big black dollars the way they do in the presentation charts APG showed us on December 9, 2014.
Sincerely,
Ron Duncan
P.S. If you wish to see the details behind the numbers, I’ll gladly show that to you but NOT in an e-mail. it took a lot of effort to compile the data.
———————————————————————–
Dec 31, 2014
To the Pros and the Cons of the HOA potential purchase of The Club at ArrowCreek and the HOA,
I love ArrowCreek and I will probably vote yes on the proposition, at least that’s my thought right now. My problem is that I hate to see all the animosity and anger that is beginning to brew in ArrowCreek. It is getting worse instead of better. I think ArrowCreek has the potential to be the prime residential area in Reno. The people here are awesome. I love the folks I meet at the gym, walking the circle and surrounding streets, the golf club, all the social activities that I am involved in, etc.
Charlie (former owner of ArrowCreek) has run the golf club into the ground over the past 7 years. He went into bankruptcy in Jan. 2014 and several (apparently 36) friends and neighbors formed the Friends of ArrowCreek (FOA) by investing money. I know several of these folks, some have a lot of money and some do not. I do not have a list of these folks nor do I want one. I feel that it is none of my business where people invest their money as long as it’s legal. I don’t want people to know where I invest my money either (I am not an FOA investor). Some of the FOA have talked about the concern of how hostile the negative folks are and don’t want to be known for fear of retaliation. Several months ago the FOA proposed that the HOA buy the course, but the HOA does not move that fast and that is part of the reason that the FOA was formed and fought Charlie in court to win the club. A very comprehensive study was done earlier this year and I saw the presentation at an HOA meeting, it showed that the country club was important to our neighborhood, whoever owned it was irrelevant. The FOA never intended to run a golf club on a long term basis. This was a stop-gap or bridge loan to help save the club and preserve the value of our neighborhood until the HOA could/would purchase it (that was their hope). They have partnered with Arnold Palmer Golf Management to run the club. This would be a joint venture with the HOA. The Arnold Palmer group has been successful with similar ventures and the potential for profit is probable.
During the past few years as the club became less and less desirable, people left. They canceled their memberships, events had fewer attendees, and the place was beginning to get run down. I remember a realtor telling me that she didn’t want to show ArrowCreek properties to new clients because of the state of the club and the unknown as to whether or not it would stick around. Mind you I am sure they never turned anyone away that wanted to see ArrowCreek. ArrowCreek is marketed as a gated golf course community and should remain as such.
Both sides are using scare tactics and getting way too emotional. I understand being passionate about a subject but can’t we all be adults and respect each other’s opinions? Opinions are meant to be shared but not necessarily accepted. You will never get all the people on one side, it just isn’t possible. But what is really right for ArrowCreek? We don’t really know. We can only research, gather facts and make that decision on our own, not because someone brow beat us. Let’s share the same FACTS. Not myths. Not numbers that have been skewed by statistics, you can make a number anything you want it to be if you use the right formula. There is no house in Reno that has gone up 43% (per info from meeting at the residents club and on the website arrowcreek411.wordpress.com). I know there was an asterisk next to the 43% but no one looks at that. There was also talk about your home would become collateral if the HOA bought the course, well, you home already is collateral if you belong to the HOA, nothing changes there. Let’s not try to fool each other. Let’s come together and let the people of ArrowCreek decide what is best. Again, based on facts. The people here in ArrowCreek want their voices heard but they also want us to do this as adults as opposed to bickering politicians that slant everything to one side. I have heard from several on both sides of the fence about how ugly this fight is getting and it is pulling ArrowCreek apart. That is not what we want. Whatever vote prevails should not drive us to be divided as residents.
There was talk at one meeting about the Kool-Aid, don’t drink the Kool-Aid. I have a better idea; let’s not make the Kool-Aid to begin with!
Is there room for negotiation? Yes. The increase of dues by $99 is big. We have a lot of young families and $99 can really impact their budget. What are they getting for the increase? Since the club has been turned over to the FOA there seems to be a renewed excitement. Old members that left under Charlie’s regime have come back. Events are better attended, often to capacity. Maybe that increased dues number can be lowered to something more tolerable. Maybe offer more amenities to the residents for their increase. Maybe they get some limited golf rounds or reduced cost of play on both the Legend and the Challenge. Maybe if this club is successful enough we can get our HOA dues reduced. I don’t know the answer but let’s work together on it.
Could ArrowCreek really turn brown? Maybe. Charlie had the course on the market for 3-1/2 years and didn’t get any bites. The FOA and many residents are concerned that if the club does not become profitable soon then it may turn brown. Many of the investors are not prepared to put up any more money. If the FOA winds up bankrupt and had to walk away, then yes, the course will probably go brown. Will all of us do what we can to prevent that, I hope so. But it is a possibility and should not be presented as a threat or a myth, just a fact. The FOA are not interested in running the club without the HOA buy in. Without Arnold Palmer, the FOA is not experienced at running a club and if they are unable to sell in a reasonable amount of time, then it would be bad news for the courses. There are a lot of possibilities.
What happens to the club house? Will it sit empty? Broken windows, graffiti? Kids hanging out, drugs, drinking? Possible. Not a threat or a myth, but possible. We are a gated community but we are not as secure as some might think. You can drive in the back road, although you are not supposed to. We have approximately 20% renters in ArrowCreek. Many are here because they want to be in the school system. That means kids and kids with friends. Are most of them responsible, yes, I like to believe that. All of them? Probably not. That could mean anything, but no guarantees. We have had problems with graffiti and vandalism in the past. There have been break ins. Our community is not immune to the problems in society. The good news is we are out of the way so it helps to secure us just by location. If we are united we can minimize the troubles, but divided makes the risk that much higher. Keep on mind, in this scenario the HOA won’t own this property so it will not be patrolled or secured by our security.
ArrowCreek is the best place to live. Let’s not turn this into a civil war. This really is small stuff in the grand scheme of life, so let’s not sweat it. Let’s come together as the great community that we are and share our thoughts, concerns and facts. Let us all make the right decision for ourselves and for ArrowCreek based on the same facts not myths and scare tactics. Why do we have two camps? Why are we so divided? We should be one regardless of how we feel or wish to vote. There should be one shared web site. There should be unbiased meetings. How about a mediator? Unbiased mediator to run all organized meetings? Just my thoughts and concerns, but I don’t believe I am alone in these views.
Thank you
Elizabeth Heaven
———————————————————————–
Dec 31, 2014
I am a member of The Club at Arrow Creek. I am not a FOA.
I live on the 8th Fairway of the Legend Course—Copper Cloud Dr.
I am a scientist: I earn my income by correctly reading (interpreting) numbers. Science numbers and dollars. I have visited D’Andrea and Somersett.
Before I make a decision about the proposal to purchase The Club, I want to see the numbers for the purchase. I want to see how much we will pay (my monthly dues). I want to see what Arnold Palmer is going to do for us and their share of the potential Reward.
If the numbers work for the purchase of The Club, and the conversion of The Club and Homeowners Association to a Family Orientated Community, it makes sense.
If the numbers don’t work for the purchase, I will be concerned and troubled because I think the FOA will have to let the fairways go to brush (brown). I think this because the FOA will likely not continue to run it. As we have heard it requires considerably more income than it is currently bringing in without the social memberships of the Arrow Creek community.
If we don’t buy it, I think the FOA will try keep it going for a few years while they try to find a buyer. I do not think they will find another buyer.
I suspect that the FOA will not continue to spend more money, with no chance of getting a return on their investment, for more than a few years.
If the FOA sold the land to a developer, and the developer obtained all the necessary permits to build roads and houses, the home owners would access their homes via our gate. In addition, they would form a HOA and we would have to deal with their HOA. We would not have any control over building guidelines or landscaping other than normal input into zoning changes.
So if we do not buy it, I think the final events will be: The FOA makes a business decision to stop funding the course; they let the employees go, and shut off the water. Their expenses will be much less but they still have payments for insurance on the club house as well as, taxes on the building and land. They stand to lose a lot. We stand to lose more.
APG has invested time and money with the FOA, and would be investing money & time with us, so they want the proposal (JV) to work. As professionals in the business, I believe they can do a much better job at the various activities they are proposing than volunteer committees we might assemble.
What are our choices: If the numbers look acceptable to me, I will vote to invest. If the numbers are not acceptable (regardless of what AP is proposing), I am not sure what to do.
It seems to me that this is a “one shot deal”: If we don’t buy it, the 500 acres that are green will go brown. There will be a fire hazard at the Club House area and all the growing brush in fairways and surrounding land will become fire fuels. I am not sure who would own the land (maybe the County) and if they would let us spend our money to remove the fire danger.
The Board members live here. The board has no interest in the purchase of the Golf course that I don’t have. If we don’t buy, I will go to Wolf Run and play. And, if I don’t like what the board is doing, I help elect new board members who think more like I do.
My thinking today (12/31/14) is: Am I willing to increase my monthly fees (number to be clarified in a few months) to protect and increase my investment in house and community, or run the continuing risk of a fire. If the number is close to the $99 estimate, I say, “yes”.
Ben Collins, Ph.D.
775 853-3849
benjaminicoll@charter.net
———————————————————————–
Dec 11, 2014
Folks,
There are alternatives to homeowners owning the golf course, while preserving our property values and making ArrowCreek a wonderful place for families, retirees, golfers and non golfers to live.
Next Monday, December 15 and Wednesday, December 17 at 1:30, and Saturday, December 20 at 10 AM and 1 PM in the Residents Center meeting room we will show a thoughtful Power Point, followed by discussion and Q&A. 90 minutes should be sufficient.
Please try to attend. Invite your neighbors. It shouldn’t matter if those leaning toward GC purchase attend. Our intent is raise questions, seek answers, express concern, and get people thinking and informed.
Ask yourself: should a large majority of owners who don’t golf, subsidize the expensive hobby of the small minority who do?
If you can give me an idea of your intention to attend, please do so, and tell me which day.
Thank you,
Wayne Krachun 851-4654
———————————————————————–
Dec 6, 2014
Call me old-fashioned or skeptical, but I like to know who I am buying something from, especially when the purchase is in the millions of dollars.
When people outright refuse to identify themselves except by general descriptions (e.g. we all live in the community so don’t worry about our motives) I still worry. Maybe that’s because of my background as a practicing attorney but I don’t want to buy anything from people who feel they have a reason to remain anonymous. And why our board refuses to press that issue is incredulous to me. I would tell them to go pound sand until they want to disclose their member names.
What do you think the chances are that they all own lots backing up to the golfcourse and are worried about THEIR property values? I hate to have to conjecture, but they are the ones who have created a situation of secrecy.
I still say let them run their business for a couple of years. If they are a massive success they won’t want to sell to us. And if they are not the price and terms should be more attractive and flexible than now.
This minimizes the risk to the HOA and, in my view, is the only reasonable path forward.
Call Me Old-Fashioned
———————————————————————–
Dec 7, 2014
In our HOA December Newsletter President of the HOA Sam Fox writes, “…It is imagined that this Joint Venture will run the golf courses, activities, swimming pools, fitness center and other recreational activities within the ACHOA. This is similar to current activities that are occurring at Somersett HOA concerning their golf course operations and recreational facilities.”
First of all, I personally do not like an ‘outside’ organization controlling assets and activities that I/we already own! Second, if you review our community/citizens web site, https://arrowcreek411.wordpress.com, you’ll see that Somersett is involved in several legal entanglements related to Mr. Fox’s statement. Third, do we, the owner’s of ArrowCreek, want this same future? Where we’re suing ourselves?? (BTW only 30%, 900 ballots out of a possible 2700, of the owners voted)
We need to slow this train down or bring it to a complete halt. Mr. Fox appears to live in a world very different from mine.
A Concerned Citizen
ArrowCreek411 
New Voices entered on Voices to the Webmaster on Nov 01 and 12, 2015.
LikeLike
I attended the ACHOA Community Meeting this past Tuesday evening (July 7) and was struck by the way I have emotionally responded to what was presented. Let’s just say that I am irritated, irritated by the ACBOD, FOA and the approximately 900 property owners who weren’t there.
Ostensibly this was a meeting of the AC Communications Committee representing the interests of the HOA.
It is my opinion that only the interests of the FOA were represented.
The advertised thrust of the meeting was to discuss the alternatives to having a golf course environment by transitioning the two golf courses to become brown native open space, a park like environment with trees, pavilions, etc. to possibly having outdoor sports incorporated which would charge money to the public for participation. The presentation was moderated by a professor at UNR and had as participants a landscape representative of Moana Nursery and the Washoe County Operations Superintendent (Parks & Rec). The purpose of the professor was to be a neutral person, the purpose of Washoe County was to discuss what failed golf courses were turned into and how they are managed and Moana discussed the estimated cost of going brown or conversion to another purpose (spreadsheet identified it was prepared for FOA). The short synopsis is that nobody would ever want an expensive park which would charge money and be open to the public and it was shown to be clear that it’s much more cost effective to purchase the current golf club than doing anything else including a return to nature.
This whole exercise was a sham! I assume paid for by the HOA, you know, us, to positively show us that the FOA needs to be bought out!
Nowhere was there a whiff of the option of encouraging the FOA to become a raging success. Clearly it isn’t an option to the ACHOA BOD. Why not? Who drives these people to pursue what a whole lot of home owners don’t want. Is there any daylight between the BOD and the FOA? I really don’t understand what’s going on here; it’s enough to make me a drunken conspiracy theorist.
I have tried to attend as many of the HOA presentations and monthly meetings as possible. What has become clear is that participation in these community meetings is heavily weighted to people who have golf interests. Based on this past meeting I would say it’s probably 90% golf, 10% non golf. Someone stood up and pointed out that when a pro-golf person speaks it’s followed by clapping, when somebody else speaks it’s silence, sometimes with an air of disapproval (I am paraphrasing).
It’s clear to me that these community meetings are just sales pitches that will lead to only one conclusion. Somebody the other night wanted some hard numbers of what it means to our monthly fees. Well, so far the only answer is that nobody knows yet but it’s being worked on. Let’s face it, the hard number won’t be presented until the FOA finishes it’s sales campaign and the membership has been softened up a bit.
OK, here is my other gripe: People out there, where are you? What is this apathy? I don’t understand it. Don’t you care? I personally am conflicted, it may well turn out that buying the property and leasing to APMG is the correct answer going forward, it may not. But why don’t you participate? Quite frankly the ACHOA BOD really only hears approval or disapproval of their actions from the golf interests. Is it such that if the HOA comes to you and wants a bump of any amount of money, say $10.00/mo., the answer is automatically NO! Well, that might not be very bright either, would it?
I would like to hear from others out there. Why aren’t you at these meetings?
Thanks
Dan Carrick
LikeLike
Comment from “About” page added 04/17/15
LikeLike
New letter posted Apr 16, 2015
LikeLike
Added a Feb 28, 2015 response to the end of the Feb 27, 2015 Voice.
LikeLike
New Voice entered on Voices to the Webmaster on Feb 27, 2015.
LikeLike
I don’t think the vote will go through. There are enough tract home owners who oppose the vote.
LikeLike
New Questions added to Voices to the Webmaster on Feb 19, 2015.
LikeLike
New Voice entered on Voices to the Webmaster on Feb 17, 2015.
LikeLike
Two new Voices to the Webmaster have been added this evening, Feb 15, 2015.
LikeLike
Pingback: Similarities to the 2008 ArrowCreek Golf Fiasco | ArrowCreek 411
ArrowCreek could close unless suit dropped
BY MARTHA BELLISLE • and lauren gustus • September 16, 2008 Source Link
Seeking to avoid bankruptcy or closure, a group of ArrowCreek Country Club homeowners was trying Monday to reach a settlement between a buyer and the management company that owns the country club and its two golf courses.
Advertisement
Officials from ArrowCreek Golf Holdings, owner and operator of the upscale club in south Reno, threatened to close the club unless 14 equity members dropped their 2006 lawsuit seeking to block the sale of the club, refund of their money and that the club be placed into receivership.
The club was closed Monday for an employee “play day.”
“What I want to make clear is that my group is trying to be as reasonable and business-like and fair as they can, so this club can continue to operate,” said Mark Gunderson, the lawyer for the members who sued the club owners and Westerra Management.
The group contended in the lawsuit that Westerra and
ArrowCreek Golf Holdings had said the club would be private and member-owned and had permitted facilities to deteriorate so that equity fees had dropped more than $20,000.
In a Sept. 10 letter, Westerra told ArrowCreek it had accepted an offer from Golden Gate Golf to purchase the club but said the lawsuit must be dropped before they would sell.
“Your Advisory Board endorses the transfer of ownership between AGH (ArrowCreek Golf Homeowners) and Golden Gate Golf,” the letter said. “Furthermore, the board urges AGH and the litigants to resolve their differences in an expeditious manner that will ensure the continued operation of our Club and avoid the likelihood of an immediate bankruptcy filing.”
Gunderson said his clients met with Golden Gate Golf during the weekend and presented a settlement offer to ArrowCreek on Monday morning.
Under the terms of the purchase agreement, Golden Gate Golf had to make a nonrefundable deposit by Monday. If the three parties accepted the settlement, the sale would proceed. If not, the course could remain closed.
Neither Gunderson nor Stephen Mollath, the lawyer for ArrowCreek, responded to calls or e-mails Monday.
Westerra entered into a contract with members in 2002 that allowed them to purchase equity (up to $60,000 for their shares) in the club as they worked toward an eventual takeover, a common practice with country clubs.
Under the plan, the takeover would be complete when members secured 750 equity partners and the club was operating in the black. The club, which opened in 1999, would be responsible for any deficits until the takeover was complete, Gunderson said.
In 2006, the club had
450 members and was operating at a deficit of $1.5 million annually, Gunderson said. Although the numbers in the contract had not been met, the club decided to turn it over to members, some of whom objected. A settlement seemed imminent when the club said it would sell to Club Corp of America, a Dallas-based corporation that is one of the largest golf course operators in the country.
The deal fell through
Aug. 29, Gunderson said.
“Three days later, we got the demand from ArrowCreek to drop the lawsuit, or they would shutter the club or declare bankruptcy,” he said.
The members began talks with Golden Gate Golf and “were comfortable with them,” Gunderson said.
ArrowCreek has two private golf courses, one private and one semi-private, designed by Arnold Palmer and Fuzzy Zoeller/John Harbottle III, in addition to swimming, tennis and a clubhouse.
LikeLike
What this article fails to point out, and/or highlight, is that the swimming and tennis facilities belong to the ACHOA, not the golf club. That’s the real issue behind this ‘consolidation’ of resources. Many property owners want to maintain this separation and see no rationale for the combination. Let the course remain a separate entity and free enterprise govern its future.
Ron Duncan
LikeLike
All concerned about the happenings here in Arrowcreek,
I am NOT a Faceless Individual like the people involved in the FOA – Friends of Arrowcreek Group. My name is Craig Swanson and I live at 558 Spirit Ridge Court in the Painted Vista living area. My phone number, for what it is worth, is 775-851-1454. You can easily identify my home as I have a shiny RED Ford F-150 Pickup Truck in my driveway! For those of you not familiar with where the Painted Vista Sudivision is, that is the area where the Faceless Individual NK has identified this area as the site where all the Tract Homes are. Shame on you!
In my book, individuals who are FRIENDS are NOT Faceless and unidentifiable! To be quite honest, you are no friends of mine and many others which I am quite sure of.
I have owned a home here in Arrowcreek since June of 2005. I sit back and look back at the many conversations concerning the current situation related to he Golf Courses! What an absolute travesty on the impact to this community!
I see Elitist Individuals toting their credentials and using Bullying and Cyber Tactics to attack individuals in our community without identifying themselves. The person who has identified him or herself as NK is an example of the type of person I am referring to.
When my wife and I bought our home back in Arrowcreek in 2005, we were told that the Golf Courses were a PRIVATE Entity and separate, totally separate, from the housing developments here in Arrowcreek. We knew that when we purchased our home. Individuals talk about a separated and divided Community. To be quite honest Arrowcreek has always been a divided community and individuals saying differently are only blowing Smoke up their own back sides! Sorry for being so blunt, but the truth is the truth.
I am an avid Golfer and looked seriously at joining the Arrowcreef PRIVATE Golf Course back in 2005. At the time, my wife and I were treated like Red Headed StepChildren and quickly decided that this Arrowcreek Private Golf Course was not for us. Needless to say, I Golf elsewhere, where I can actually enjoy myself and am not surrounded by a group of individuals who have the opinion that they are better than everyone else.
For the future I wish all you Faceless FOA folks the very best in your future endeavors.
The very best to those who really care!
Craig Swanson
LikeLike
I agree with the points made by Mr. Swanson. We received the same welcome treatment with: “You don’t belong here, we don’t want you here” looks when we were checking out the Golf Club for a social membership. It is unbelievable, that those same people have no shame in asking us for our money. I have no illusions though, that my money will make me good enough to buy a seat at their table.
We too always understood that ArrowCreek was a gated community built around a golf course, and that belonging to the golf club was optional and voluntary. There have always been three groups of residents coexisting peacefully: the golfers, the social members, and the non-members. Now the FOA and HOA board want to force non-members to become members. Forced members will not be happy members, and you cannot forge a sense of community by forcing someone to give up their freedom of choice, forcing them to do something they don’t want to do, and trying to convert them into someone they do not want to be. This will only cause animosity and controversy.
We have become an openly divided and polarized community over this issue of buying the golf course. This has been evident during the latest HOA meetings and in the postings on this website. The HOA board should represent all of us, should put an end to this madness, and let each and every one go on with their lives here in ArrowCreek as they please.
Nobody forced the FOA or Golf Club members into anything. Why is it that non-members do not seem to have the same rights?
And what about the other reason, home values, that the FOA/HOA use to persuade us to buy the golf course. Escalating HOA fees to $ 500 and above and repeat special assessments of thousands of dollars have more to do with the market value of my home than a golf course. I am going to put my house on the market before the money/bloodletting begins. Oh, I know, you know who will say: ”Good riddance, we don’t want you here anyway.”
…Which brings me back to the sad state our community has come to.
LikeLike
Dear Equal Rights,
Thank you for joining the discussion. Your perspective is being echoed throughout the canyons of ArrowCreek. Many of us would prefer you stay and enjoy the ambience of the Truckee Meadows from one of the premier developments in Washoe County.
Your interests, also like many, extend beyond the narrow perspective of a club and the fence boundary. I hope you continue to enjoy those pursuits and stay in ArrowCreek to assist in making this a place where we can all have freedom of choice. Don’t let a few spoil your perspective as we, Concerned Neighbors of ArrowCreek, need your help in changing the direction of the ACHOA Board.
Ron Duncan
LikeLike
What would it take to have a recall election and get a board that is truly looking out for our best interest instead of their own?
We need someone like Ron.
LikeLike
The Club went to equity membership and the same people sued the developer and HOA when an attempt was made to make it public again. Gary was a plaintiff in the suit as well as other FOA’s. This is all public record.
This appears to be another attempt by the self appointed elite to shut the little guy out of the club. The difference is, this time they want the “little guy” to subsidize the move. They now have their private club, while banning most residents who are busy raising families and can’t afford to be “elite”. Good luck I hope you do well. But please refrain from calling yourselves “friends”.
LikeLike
Another letter posted Feb 06, 2015.
LikeLike
New letter posted Feb 06, 2015
LikeLiked by 1 person
I can not figure out why we are all slapping our “credentials” on the table. Mine is guaranteed bigger than yours but that really doesn’t help anyone in this situation.
As far as the vote is concerned, someone stated that we pay one of the highest HOA fee in Reno. And?!? What’s your point? We also live in one of the best communities in the Reno. Paying an extra $1200.00 a year is going break the bank for you? Why do you live here?
Oh, and to the person who would like to put the house on the market once the golf course vote goes through? That is probably the only way your home will sell anyway. If the golf course vote doesn’t go through and the course goes to hell, no one will even want your house, but you can go ahead and list it and see what happens. Good luck with that by the way.
Ron Duncan, oh gosh, where should I start. Mr. Duncan made the comment in his previous post stating “The golf course going brown is not an issue for Painted Vista. We live in a beautiful piece of the remaining high desert.” I understand that Painted Vista is mostly a tract home area and not on the golf course, then, why, the act of concerned Arrowcreek citizen when all you are worried about really is an increase in an HOA fee and not the community at all. If you truly cared about the community as a whole and just not your own personal interest you would actually have cared about the state of the golf course. Way to show that Arrowcreek Community Spirit!
Oh, and speaking of ‘Scare Tactics’, wait, sorry, I wasn’t speaking of them, but Ron Duncan loves to keep bringing it up. The ‘golf course effect’ will in turn affect the value of our homes. If golf course home value goes down, then, obviously, the community home values as a whole will go down. Once again, I state, we live in one of the best communities in Reno. When the community was planned it was planned around the golf course. The type of people we want to buy lots and homes in Arrowcreek want all the amenities that come with living in a high end neighborhood including the golf course. Thats just the way things are. High end buyers LIKE amenities, they LIKE golf courses, you cannot want to live and reap the benefits of living in Arrowcreek without wanting to maintain the community. If maintaining the community and property values means maintaining the golf course then you should.
This isn’t a scare tactic, but yes, you should be scared if you put forth the mentality of “I don’t live on the golf course, I don’t care what happens, I don’t want to pay money for anything, but, I still want to live in a high end neighborhood and the unicorns will help me maintain my property value.”
At the end thats really what it is about. A decline in property value, A decline in a standard and a decline in a community as a whole. Of course you should be scared, duh, why wouldn’t you be? I am.
PS. Appreciate the forum, kudos for maintaining it.
LikeLike
Wow, what a snob you are. I bought one of the “tract homes” in June of 2000 and I unfortunately did ‘t get the memo that you needed to be a high- roller to live here. Hey, why don ‘t you all buy my house and the houses of anyone you believe to be inferior to you and then resell them to folks you select as having the right profile? Then you can have exactly the community you want!!! Heil Hitler!
LikeLike
NK, Welcome to the discussion. As you noted it’s difficult to pick a place and respond but I’ll give it a try.
Credentials, within the business world and society in general, are important to establish one’s credibility and support one’s perspective. They are not intended or meant to be one-upmanship. They are intended to establish a relative equality in conversation and negotiation. Sorry you were offended by Mr. Morabito and my exchange.
If the discussion were really about money, I wouldn’t be engaged. It’s not, but I’ll get to that in a moment. You asked “why do I live here?” We live here for the security, the fantastic view, the nature of the high desert, the educational opportunities, the entertainment and the very excellent medical care. We also live here, at-the-end-of-the-road, to have the ability to chose which activity we participate in from day-to-day. Hopefully, that answers your question.
Moving on to ‘community spirit.’ It’s not clear what definition of ‘community’ was used. What the definition is, is “an interacting population of various kinds of individuals in a common location” (Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary). That’s what a ‘community’ is, an interacting population of individuals. Individuals have always enjoyed the right of free choice here in ArrowCreek. That should be preserved without question. If this were merely about the golf course, then there likely would not be a hue and cry, it’s not. The proposal is to combine the Residents Center with The Golf Club and force mandatory golf club membership upon all of us: That is THE ISSUE, NOT Money.
Now for apparently a favorite topic – property values. As I stated to Mr. Morabito, high end homes, golf course or not, are going in the range of $200 to $250 per square foot. In fact a very recent listing, that arrived in yesterday’s mail, in ArrowCreek, is asking $238 per square foot even with the controversy hanging over the development. Homes on the open space or golf course don’t dictate the price between a willing seller and a willing buyer. That’s a negotiation.
In summary, “At the end thats really what it is about. A decline in property value, A decline in a standard and a decline in a community as a whole. Of course you should be scared, duh, why wouldn’t you be?” I couldn’t agree with you more about living in a high end development. I do see things differently and, yes, I am scared about the direction of my community. Open space, golf course or not, is becoming a valued commodity. Property values will fluctuate with the market conditions, not a golf course, and being afraid of that fluctuation will be a detriment to moving forward. Preserving Freedom of Choice should matter to every member of the community, instead of preserving self interest.
Regards, Ron Duncan
LikeLike
January 31, 2015
Dear Mr. Duncan:
I received your letter in opposition to the HOA purchase of the Club at Arrowcreek. While you are certainly entitled to oppose this deal, you really need to get the facts straight to have any credibility in your argument. If the HOA buys the Club; the HOA and through it, our members will own the Club. Title will transfer for whatever price is negotiated.
Further as one of the FOA, I can tell you that we did not buy the Club out of bankruptcy as an investment. There were certainly other places we could have put our money to perhaps gain a better return. We bought the Club because it was in the interest of our entire community. As someone who has worked in real estate, one way or another for 35 years, I know that people are paying $50 – $100 more per square foot to live in Arrowcreek because of our views, community amenities, the gate and The Club. Allowing the Club to go to seed would have impacted property values for everyone that lives in Arrowcreek, including you.
While my wife and I are not golfers and we are only Social Members of the Club, we do live on the 9th Tee of the upper course. Homes on the golf course, particularly with views, set the price for all homes in Arrowcreek, since they typically will have the highest values. That is just the way real estate works. So if you care about the value of your home and the equity you have in it, you should be concerned about anything that threatens that value. Turning the Club into a community amenity, with family attractions, making all HOA members Social Members of the Club, without a food requirement, controlled by the HOA, is the best way to protect overall property values.
Further, as someone who has lived through raging fires across the street from our canyon home in California, I know that the golf course is the best fuel modification zone we could have in Arrowcreek. If the golf course was ever allowed to go to seed, it would bring the fire right to our backyards, which would be terrible for everyone. And, to be clear, if the golf course was ever allowed to go to seed, the fire authority would require the HOA, as perhaps the only legal entity left, to maintain it as a fuel modification zone, which without any income, is the least desirable option from a cost perspective. In addition, just so you know, since our home in California is adjacent to natural terrain, we can’t even get any insurance company to quote on home insurance. As such, we must remain with our current insurer, State Farm, at very inflated rates, since they will not cancel current policy holders because we can’t otherwise get insurance on our home. If the golf course was ever allowed to go to seed, anyone living within 300 feet of it would face the same issues, including very high home insurance rates.
My point is that there is a bigger picture to all of this than just the monthly increase in dues that may be necessary if the HOA buys the Club. In forming your opinion and or in trying to influence others, you do a great disservice to our community by ignoring all the facts, particularly if you misstate them.
Sincerely,
Joseph Morabito
LikeLike
Mr. Morabito,
Thank you for joining the discussion. We obviously have two sets of facts from which to draw our respective perspectives. As a Senior Systems Engineer, Operations Manager and Program Manager for 46 years, I’ve always attempted to look at the bigger picture and what is best for my community, my programs and my family. As a consequence, some of your assertions don’t hold up to the Reno, Nevada experience.
Property values, as you’re well aware, are determined by location, location and location. Not whether there’s a golf course or not. In fact, our home and land prices appear to be more closely tied to security, gated community (double gated in some cases), and the quality of the schools adjacent to our CIC. It should be further observed that custom homes in this area are going for ~$200 to $240 per square foot (no golf course mentioned). Semi-customs appear to be in the range of ~$150 to $200 per square foot(with or without a golf course). These values can be easily extracted from the REMAX data base. So, I question your assertion that The Club has anything to do with prices in ArrowCreek. In fact, we pay one of the highest, if not the highest, HOA fee in all of Washoe County. That fee may be what you’re referring to in your $50 to $100 more statement. Adding more to that fee would only decrease the price of property.
I too have lived in fire prone areas and in fact our property was burned in 2000 with the Arrow Creek fire. The risk of fire is always there if you live in the foothills in the high desert. We have had no issues getting competitive bids for our property insurance. I would also like to acquaint you with the fact that there is a funded Fuels Management Committee as part of the ACHOA. That committee has done NOTHING to mitigate the current risk posed by the ‘undeveloped’ common areas between properties of our community, except study the issue. Furthermore, if the property is not owned by the ACHOA, we cannot be held liable for any fire risk, ONLY the property owner can be held liable.
So that leaves your issue of forcing ALL property owners to become members of the club. There is absolutely no benefit to be gained for those who don’t currently belong to The Club to join. Also, combining the Resident Center with The Club to provide a broader experience to the community, doesn’t support the community at all. Currently we have a ‘CHOICE’ to become members or not. Freedom of Choice should be preserved.
Lastly, yes, I’ve questioned the motives of the FOA. You would too if you were told someone wanted you to pay them everything they paid, plus ALL debts and 12% on top. I’ve come to realize that the FOA indeed had ‘pure’ motives for their action. However, the unintended consequences for the ACHOA and owners like myself have severely damaged the path to an easy resolution. The best course of action at this point, certainly from a litigation perspective, is to let private enterprise work and keep the ACHOA as a non-profit by-stander.
Regards,
Ron Duncan
LikeLike
Mr. Duncan: I am not a Systems Engineer; but I am the Founder and CEO of a Global Relocation, Real Estate and Mortgage Company and have been so for 24 years and before that was a Senior Manager at similar companies for 11 years. As such, I am well aware of Location, Location, Location as a primary factor of real estate value, which in our case is enhanced by proximity to a 36 hole golf course with fantastic views. I also know that creating a great community for families, in particular, sells homes and at higher values. The Club is integral to the property values in our community, whether someone lives on the golf course, is a golfer, or not. The real issue here is control. It would be best if the HOA gains control of the Club, through ownership, which will occur if a sale happens to the HOA to best protect the interests of all homeowners. If approved by a majority of homeowners, once done, the HOA can then make the benefits of the Club available to all homeowners as a selling point to future buyers. And, since the FOA was basically able to buy the Club by paying off various debts at a price that was relatively low, as a bridge to HOA ownership, HOA Members, through our Board, will now have the opportunity to determine the future of the Club. There is a bigger picture here related to Control and all amenities in our community and the issue of fuel modification, which would have been a serious problem if the Club was ever allowed to go to seed, aside from the impact on Property Values. Believe me, the FOA, had no alterior motive in pulling our monies to buy the Club; but to provide our community with options. If we were in it for the money, perhaps the FOA could have the course rezoned into custom lots now that the market is picking up and make a killing on our investment. I have even joked that the land would make a great cemetary. HOA control will insure that this never happens; though in fact, it has never been a discussion by the FOA. I only mention other potential uses to demonstrate why HOA control forever is so important. All FOA members, even those that are retired, are pretty busy people. Buying a Golf Club was never part of anyone’s investment strategy. We did it as a service to our community because it was in the best interests of all concerned. Joe Morabito
P.S. By the way, the real cost factor related to our HOA monthly dues is maintenance of our private streets, which will far exceed anything that can happen at the Club. Don’t forget, the Club comes with income. The streets do not.
LikeLike
Mr. Morabito,
The fundamental difference that we’re dealing with is the view of the word ‘control’ and ‘Freedom of Choice.’ The options mentioned for using the old golf course property are figments of someone’s imagination. In order for those options to be viable, the Washoe County commission would have to alter the zoning with at least 1000 property owners set against such a change. Voters count, even at the commission level. The original developer of ArrowCreek tried to get some of the open space re-zoned and was turned down. No one should believe that a ‘golf course, even in dis-repair,’ that impinges on that open space, would meet any other fate.
‘Views,’ yes we share some of the best ones in the Truckee Meadows. We also have one of the two Blue Ribbon schools just outside our front gate. As for the family environment, the Residents Center provides very nicely at the current dues rate. Why would any non club/non golf member of ArrowCreek want to be forced or coerced into being a member of a golf club that they have no use for?
We also appear to have a disagreement about the golf club/36 holes being an amenity. It’s not amenity, like security, the tennis courts or the swimming pools. It was a come-on in the developers plan to sell property. Since buying here, about the same time as yourself, we haven’t once felt deprived nor envious of the people who use the golf facilities and indeed they are a separate part of the development. As such, as a business man, why would you buy something that hasn’t made money/profit in 15 Years and in need of serious renovation? and then try and sell it to an HOA who has strict prohibitions to a profit making enterprise?
This doesn’t make sense for the individuals in this community. Especially since the control issue is fraught with litigation should the HOA decide to abandon either or both courses. It’s much better to let good old American free enterprise make the decision and then pick up the pieces.
Ron Duncan
LikeLike
Mr. Morabito,
Let me get this straight, you (the FOA) bought the club to act as a bridge loan in order for the HOA to purchase the club? This wreaks of a back door deal. I wonder if the ACHOA board members understand their fiduciary responsibilities and the potential violations of NRS by doing so. This must be why there is no business plan available for residents (potential investors) to see. Also, when has this club made any money? One of your FOA found a way for the roads to make money, they are called speed signs, ask you know who about that. I’ve got an idea, run the club. I bought in here not for the club, it had and has zero impact on my property value. I have a great view of the valley, the city and Mt. Rose; I’m sorry you picked a golf course lot. Dangerfield says it best, “The two biggest waste of land, golf courses and cemeteries.”
Not posting a name until we get a full list of members of the FOA. Gee I hope none of them are related to or are board members………..
LikeLike
Some are related to a previous grab for the golf club in ’06
Case Information
Case Description: CV06-00861 – BOB SKACH; ETAL. V S. ARROW CREEK GOLF ETAL (D-3)
Filing Date: 13-Apr-2006
Case Type: GC – OTHER CIVIL MATTERS
Status: 3990 – Stip & Ord Dismiss W/Prejudice
Case Cross Reference
Cross Reference Number(s)
Case Parties
Party Type Name
JUDG – Judge POLAHA, JEROME M.
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
DEFT – Defendant TERRABROOK, INC.,
DEFT – Defendant SOUTHWEST POINTE ASSOCIATES, LLC,
DEFT – Defendant TIGER/WESTBROOK NEVADA, LLC,
DEFT – Defendant AC PROPERTIES, LLC,
DEFT – Defendant WB LAND INVESTMENTS, LP,
DATY – Attorney – Deft/Adverse/Resp Mollath, Esq., Stephen C.
DATY – Attorney – Deft/Adverse/Resp Mollath, Esq., Stephen C.
DATY – Attorney – Deft/Adverse/Resp Mollath, Esq., Stephen C.
DATY – Attorney – Deft/Adverse/Resp Mollath, Esq., Stephen C.
DATY – Attorney – Deft/Adverse/Resp Mollath, Esq., Stephen C.
DATY – Attorney – Deft/Adverse/Resp Mollath, Esq., Stephen C.
DEFT – Defendant WESTERRA MANAGEMENT, LLC,
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft SKACH, BOB
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft HARRIS, RICHARD
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft HUMPHREY, ALAN E.
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft BURKETT, PAUL
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft MEYER, RICK
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft MOTHERWAY, TOM
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft GAUMER, GARY
PCDE – Plaintiff/Counter-Deft PESTELLO, GARY
DCC – Defendant Counterclaimant ARROWCREEK GOLF HOLDINGS, LLC,
PLTF – Plaintiff MARTINEZ, MANNY
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PLTF – Plaintiff CHRISTIE, CORT
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PLTF – Plaintiff PARSONS, DON
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PLTF – Plaintiff TOOMEY, MARK
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
PLTF – Plaintiff JASZEWSKI, PAUL
PATY – Attorney-Pltf/Pet/Appli/Appell Gunderson, Esq., Mark Harlan
Event Information
Hearing/Event Details
1. 18-Oct-2007 at 08:00 – S1 – Request for Submission Hearing Judge: Honorable JEROME POLAHA
2. 13-Aug-2007 at 08:40 – S1 – Request for Submission Hearing Judge: Honorable JEROME POLAHA
3. 09-Aug-2007 at 08:29 – S1 – Request for Submission Hearing Judge: Honorable JEROME POLAHA
4. 19-Jan-2007 at 14:30 – H756 – PRE-TRIAL CONFERENCE Hearing Judge: Honorable ELLIOTT SATTLER
5. 28-Dec-2006 at 15:55 – S1 – Request for Submission Hearing Judge: Honorable DISCOVERY WESLEY AYRES
6. 19-May-2006 at 09:30 – H150 – APPLICATION FOR TRO Hearing Judge: Honorable JEROME POLAHA
7. 19-May-2006 at 09:00 – H150 – APPLICATION FOR TRO Hearing Judge: Honorable JEROME POLAHA
8. 19-May-2006 at 09:30 – H764 – PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION Hearing Judge: Honorable JEROME POLAHA
9. 19-May-2006 at 09:00 – H150 – APPLICATION FOR TRO Hearing Judge: Honorable ELLIOTT SATTLER
10. 09-May-2006 at 16:00 – H364 – HEARING… Hearing Judge: Honorable JEROME POLAHA
LikeLike
I am a simple working person, without a lot of titles to my name. So please forgive me if my questions seem simplistic, but I need to ask them anyway.
1) How exactly is it in the best interest of us non golfers to purchase the Golf Course at an inflated price: the 12 % interest that the FOA, and therefore you as a FOA member, demand.
2) How exactly is the 12 % interest not a ” in it for the money”? Are the FOA members planning to donate the money they are going to make to charity?
3) Isn’t there a difference between income and profit? Yes, the Golf Club may produce some income through fees, from the restaurant, bar and pro shop, but has it ever produced any profit? The answer is NO!
4) What do you mean by gaining control over the Golf Course? The destiny of the golfing industry is out of our control. Increasing membership to a profitable level by voluntary membership is out of our control. The financial needs and legal liability associated with operating a golf course are out of our control. The only ones gaining control if the HOA buys the Golf Club would be the golfers and the FOA: the control over my wallet.
As far as rezoning is concerned, this is an answer provided by the HOA Board in a recent posting:
“There are a myriad of encumbrances on the golf course property with respect to
legal and administrative open space requirements established by multiple local and federal agencies as well as archaeological restrictions. Consequently, it can be assumed that the application process to rezone this property would be long and arduous. Whether or not such an application would be approved cannot be speculated.”
If the FOA can sell off the land for profit, then some of the future lot/home owners may want to become golf club members. So then you would have a double win situation and I could keep my money under my control.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Reply to All: There are so many issues here that I would have to spend hours responding. Suffice to say that I do not speak for the FOA, just myself. There was no back door deal; so please let’s not descend into conspiracy theories. Just remember, real estate always goes to its highest and best use. If the FOA was doing this as an investment, the smartest thing to do would be to get one of the golf courses rezoned to develop it into gated half acre and acre custom lots. Don’t assume with enough legal help and money that this would be impossible. And, it would be far preferable to letting the course go to seed. If we were only looking at this as in investment, rezoning would serve three purposes for the FOA, if we remain as owners. 1. We would make a fortune on our investment. 2. Many of these new homeowners would probably join the Club making it even more viable and valuable. 3. Increasing the value of The Club would allow the FOA to flip it five or ten years from now for a huge profit. Again, none of this has ever been discussed by any FOA members because it was never anyone’s intention. I am just telling you how a real estate professional would look at this deal.
Based on your comments, I am just responding the way someone in Real Estate would see this transaction. However, no one that I know in the FOA is seeing our purchase as an investment. Frankly, we all have better places to put our money. The reality is that we paid less for this Golf Club that the value of many of the custom homes in Arrowcreek. It was an incredible bargain because of timing. We stepped up because the timing would have never allowed the HOA to respond even if it wanted to. Now the opportunity is there for HOA members to determine the fate of The Club. If a majority plus 1 vote to buy the Club, it will happen. If not, it won’t happen. Pretty simple.
I will end with saying that there is a big picture in all of this. A thriving Club will spin off cash because we paid so little for this property, which the HOA, as a non profit, could use to supplement Reserves related to our private streets, in particular, which will always be a problem, reduce HOA monthly dues, or improve common areas, including the Community Center. The timing on all of this is very good. New Custom Homes are springing up all over Arrowcreek. Many of these people will join the Club. We are already seeing new members and old members come back. While it makes sense for the HOA to buy the Club to control it forever, if it does not happen, I am sure the FOA, composed of some pretty smart people, will run it as a successful business, one way or another. At least for me, in business and in life, failure is not an option.
And, while it was never our intention, if it turns into a great investment for us personally, so be it. I won’t be responding to further comments because I don’t want my personal comments represented erroneously. I am sure that all residents will get whatever factual information they need from the HOA in the weeks and months ahead to make an informed decision. Residents who choose to see the big picture will do so. Others focused on a dues increase in the short term will not. By the way, our HOA dues doubled because of monies needed to fund the Reserves to deal with our private streets. The Club comes with income; our private streets come with none. It is what it is. Joe Morabito
LikeLike
Mr. Morabito, thanks for coming forward with your comments. We now know the identities of at least 3 members of foa! Now for the identities if the other 33 who choose to remain undercover —
It sounds like you guys made a great investment. I hope you make tons on money on it. Where you went astray was in assuming that the rest of us want to buy into your seemingly altruistic dream.
I, for one, do not.
So sell houses that back up to the golf course lots that I assume many of the foa (and board!!!) own. That will mean more people to subsidize fire abatement, the gate, pools and other things we currently pay our dues for. You’ll lose your golf course view but you ‘ll make a killing on your investment, per your own admission . Or, if you don’t want to do that , ply your collective business acumen and make the club a success.
Just don ‘t expect to conscript me into supporting your flowery view of what our community should be. I like it how I bought it and how it IS.
And please don ‘t jump to conclusions about the number of votes needed to get this thing through. We know that the HOA attorney would like to tell everyone that it is 50 plus one.But, some of our residents are also attorneys and disagree with her and your conclusion. I am confident that we could hire counsel that would support our position that a much higher percentage will be needed and, before we acede to your (in our opinion) flawed analysis would likely choose to go to the mat to see who a judge thinks is right. Heard of a tro?
LikeLike
New letter posted 1/12/15.
LikeLike
Webmaster,
There were two earthquakes yesterday, 26 January 2015, at 1:29 and 1:57, 2.3 miles Northwest of Galena High School. They measured 2.3 and 2.9 magnitude respectively. (As reported by the Reno Gazette Journal) That puts the epicenter about 100 yards west of the Fire station at Arrow Creek Parkway and Thomas Creek Road.
We know this area is an active seismologic zone, as the National Geophysical Laboratory has installed monitoring systems just outside of our ArrowCreek neighborhood on the north western boundary.
Ron Duncan
LikeLike
To ACHOA Sam Fox
Subject Trust in the ACHOA Board
How can we the members of the HOA Corporation ‘trust’ a Board of Directors that intentionally withholds vital information from its constituents? Where exactly are the November HOA Board Minutes? Its been two months and counting. Where are the minutes from the Annual meeting? Yes, a presentation and voting results have been posted, but no meeting minutes. Where exactly are the minutes from the 3 September 2014 Emergency meeting, referenced in the Frequently Asked Questions? and finally, it is rumored that the Reserve Study for the Golf Club is complete. Where is that posted? Is our management company really that unresponsive?
If you want owner trust, please rectify these short comings and be more responsive.
LikeLike
New letter posted 1/5/15.
LikeLike
New letter posted 1/3/15.
LikeLike
With respect to “To the Pros and the Cons of the HOA potential purchase of The Club at ArrowCreek and the HOA,” Dec 31,2014
Ms. Heaven,
I appreciate seeing and reading your letter. However, the ‘Cool Aid’ has already been made by the very slick presentation of Arnold Palmer Golf Management. So, let’s try and stick to some actual facts.
You and your family were personally invited to join a group of neighbors in Painted Vista to discuss common interests. During that discussion it was pointed out that the current HOA web site is not interactive and that it is heavily censored. A person stood up and said they could create something that met our community needs. That was done about four weeks ago and your letter is evidence that it truly provides a forum for discussion.
As for your ‘scare tactics’ (the club house could become a haven for juveniles and graffiti), we all still pay for security and it is remarkably efficient. The golf course going brown is not an issue for Painted Vista. We live in a beautiful piece of the remaining high desert. Fire danger is an on-going threat that the HOA has funds to reduce but has done nothing but hold meetings.
We each will need to make a decision, with respect to our own criteria, on whether buying a golf course and funding it to the tune of $1+ Million per year makes sense for our budgets. In many of our cases it does not and that’s what makes a horse race.
Compromise: Let the FOA pursue its right to own and operate the golf course and leave the HOA out of it to preserve our property values.
Ron Duncan
LikeLike
Two New Letters from 12/31/14 have been posted.
LikeLike
I am still unclear on what the number of golf members is for FOA to run the Club profitably and what that number becomes with and without the HOA purchasing the Club assists and liabilities, and forming the joint venture. If FOA can really be successful by only doubling their current golf memberships, then why is there not a big push by them to do just that?
LikeLike
Dec. 16, 2014
I attended the first presentation by Wayne Krachun and Forrest Patin yesterday afternoon. I would like to share my thoughts.
I applaud their efforts to be involved in this important decision for the ACHOA. I appreciated the slogan: “We can do better.” Yes, I think we can.
The presentation also needs to be in the evening; we need neighbors there who don’t have gray hair and may not have a clue as to what is happening in the community. I advocate changing the gate sign to reflect this.
While I found the presentation to be a bit “off topic” because of the community possibilities as enumerated by Forrest, there was enough “meat” on the golf environment to get the discussion going. For me, the subject is: what do we do with the golf courses? I think it’s fair to assume that the FOA and current ACBOD have a plan and they want to make it happen. Unfortunately, none of us outsiders know the details. Heck, maybe it’s true that they don’t either, but I suspect that it’s mostly in place and it’s just a matter of how they get there as this has been in play for awhile now. I would like to state where I am coming from: I don’t golf; I bought here because I like the ambiance of the golf club; I really don’t want to see the golf course fail to the point of being brown; if the course can be saved in a reasonable manor, let’s save it. Operative word here is reasonable. At this point we are working with an unfinished product as presented by Rich Kenny. His presentation represents current thinking by the FOA, ACBOD, and APMC. They have presented their thoughts. I think it’s time for some counter thoughts that represent a real plan, but I think we need to see and understand what they are going to propose for the community. Unfortunately we only have speculation at this point but let’s start thinking how “we can do better.” For example: I think that the ACHOA (us) need to own the land. As I understand it, D’Andrea HOA doesn’t own the land and has no say about what happens next. If we own the land and the worst case scenario happens, we would be in position to repurpose it to possibly do some of the things Forrest mentioned. I think the ACHOA doesn’t need to be in the golf business; it’s a risky business for anyone in this economy under the best of situations. I think 36 holes is 18 too many. APMC presentation made it sound as if they are the wunderkids of golf management. I think they should manage it under lease to the HOA. Just thinking out loud, possibly a deal can be structured to protect their investment for the first 12 months, then they are on their own. Then again, Tom Gurney said yesterday that they, FOA, is prepared to go it alone, so maybe this is the best bet. The ACHOA can then purchase it from them, possibly at a lower price if it all goes south.
I do know that as the FOA/ACHOA deal as currently talked about, no cap, capitol calls, incremental dues increases, etc. is not something I will support. It’s corporate welfare in its worst form.
Dan Carrick
853-4074
LikeLike
Wayne Krachun says:
December 16, 2014 at 7:03 pm
Excellent points, Dan. I agree that our presentation was a bit off target, and 4 of us have worked hard to present a more focused and shorter argument. Wednesday at 1pm and Saturday at 10am and 1pm will be completely different presentations. And yes, we will plan for an evening discussion in early January.
Wayne Krachun
LikeLike